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楼主: cecil

[嘘嘘] 新论坛,新气象,本论坛第一只楼

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:45:18 | 显示全部楼层
科丹和盖拉德丽尔也是非常远古的精灵,科丹是两个精灵中比较年长的那一位。在诺多叛出之前,他与一位甚至更多的迈埃和梵拉通沟交流,因此在第一纪之后,他有可能已经和他们交流过了。盖拉德丽尔夫人出于在阿曼,因此,她亲自结识了多位梵拉和迈埃。她可能还直接受诲于创造者之首的造物主。过了不久,在诺多叛乱之后,盖拉德丽尔被介绍给那位向麦尼哥洛斯的辛达精灵传授了许多东西的梅丽安。

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:45:22 | 显示全部楼层
The Elven-wise were thus members of the most ancient Eldarin civilizations, or the direct heirs of those civilizations. Elrond was born after all the old kingdoms of Beleriand had been destroyed, but his father was Earendil and his foster father was Maglor. Maglor, though renowned mostly as a great singer and warrior, was the second son of Feanor. Feanor was the greatest among the Eldar in arts and lore (presumably, "lore" here being what Tolkien called "technology" as acquired and applied by the Noldor). Elrond's apprenticeship under one of the last Feanorians who had walked in Aman might not have been equivalent to an education in Aman, but he would have benefitted from Maglor's experience in many ways. When Elrond met Frodo and Sam in the Shire, he was playing a harp. Was his musical skill derived from Maglor?

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:45:28 | 显示全部楼层
因此,精灵智者指的是从最古老的埃达精灵文明中走出来的精灵,或是那种文明的继承者。埃尔隆诞生于贝瑞勒上所有的古老的王国毁灭之后,但他的父亲是埃兰迪尔,他的养父是麦格洛尔。麦格洛尔是费诺的次子,也是一位伟大的歌唱家和战士。而费诺在艺术和手工艺方面则是埃达精灵中最具造诣的(此处的“lore学识”大概即托尔金所说的“technology工艺、技术”,这个词是诺多精灵习惯上的用法)。埃尔隆师从这位曾经漫游于阿曼的费诺家族的最后的传人,尽管这可能还无法等同于他直接在阿曼接受教育,但多年来,他肯定从麦格洛尔经验中受益非浅。当埃尔隆在霞尔遇见佛多和山姆的时候,他还演奏了竖琴。他的音乐技能是从麦格洛尔那儿学来的吗?

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:45:34 | 显示全部楼层
The lords of the Eldar seem to have been the most powerful of the Elves. Finrod engaged in a contest of sorcery with Sauron, and though Sauron prevailed Finrod's deed is considered a great achievement. Luthien was the greatest of all Elven enchantresses, but she was also the daughter of Melian the Maia. Feanor had the greatest power, and he was able to sway most of the Noldor toward rebellion and exile. It would seem, therefore, that the chief power was invested in the Finweans and Elweans. That is, the families of the Eldarin kings displayed greater power or sorcery than other Elven families. Hence, Celebrimbor alone could make three Rings more powerful than the other Rings which the Gwaith-i-Mirdain had made with Sauron's aid. Galadriel could cast down the walls of Dol Guldur.

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:45:38 | 显示全部楼层
埃达精灵的领主好象是精灵中最强大的。芬若致力于与索隆对抗魔法。尽管后来索隆取得了胜利,但芬若的行为仍被视为壮举。露西恩在所有的精灵女性中是法力最强的一位,但她是迈埃梅丽安之女。费诺拥有最强大的力量,能够鼓动大部分的诺多反判和出走阿曼。因此,精灵主要的力量看起来是植入了芬威和爱尔威一脉中。所以,埃达王室一族在力量上和法力上都显得比其它的家族要大得多、塞勒博利波独自打造的三戒的力量甚至要比沃斯梅丹在索隆的帮助下所打造的那些戒指的力量还要强大,而盖拉德丽尔夫人则将多尔哥多之墙的守将的气势挫败。

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:45:43 | 显示全部楼层
Glorfindel proved to be an exceptional Elven lord, and was certainly a very powerful lord at the end of the Third Age. But in fleshing out Glorfindel's history, Tolkien determined that Glorfindel's status as a re-embodied Elf enhanced his gifts and power. He had become more powerful, and was almost like one of the Maiar. Glorfindel might not have been able to assume a huge, mountainous form like one of the Maiar, but he might have been able to achieve some pretty powerful magic. So, Glorfindel's ancient age, his accumulated wisdom and experience, and his great power virtually assured him a place among the Wise. But when did the Wise become the Wise? When did the Elves look at these great lords and realize there was more to their wisdom and lore than just the sum of their experience and education?

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:45:49 | 显示全部楼层
格洛芬德被证明是一位非常杰出的精灵领主,当然也是第三纪末期一位强大的领主。但回掠一下格洛芬德的经历,我们发现托尔金先生将格洛芬德设定为一位转生的精灵,他的力量和天赋都得到了提高,他因此变得更加强大,几乎象一位迈埃。虽然他没有象迈埃那样采用了象山似的巨大的形体,但他很可能获得了某些相当强的法力。因此,格洛芬德古老的年岁、他所积累的才智和阅历、以及他的强大的力量确保他能够实实在在地挤入智者之列。但,那些所谓的智者是在什么时候才成为智者的呢?对他们伟大的领主们,精灵们是在什么时候意识到他们身上具有那种比单纯意义上的经验和教育的总和还要多的智慧和学识呢?

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:45:56 | 显示全部楼层
The Wise are found in Tol Eressea as well as in Middle-earth. At least, in considering the possible origins of the Orcs, The Silmarillion tells us that the Wise of Tol Eressea believe the Orcs were bred from Elves whom Melkor captured soon after their awakening at Cuivienen. So, who are these Wise of Tol Eressea? None of the Finweans return to Aman after the First Age. Plenty of them die during the Wars of Beleriand, but are they the Wise of Tol Eressea to whom the narrative refers? How many of them are released from Mandos after the First Age? Finrod, at least, is said to have been brought forth. He walks under the trees of Eldamar with his father, Finarfin. Yet Tol Eressea becomes the home of the Eldar who sail over Sea to Aman after the War of Wrath. That is, the Noldor led by Finarfin continue to live in Aman itself, and Finrod when he emerges from Mandos must settle in Aman, in Eldamar, rather than on Tol Eressea.

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:46:02 | 显示全部楼层
同中洲一样,在托尔埃勒西尔岛上也发现了智者。至少,考虑到奥克斯可能的起源的时候,《茜玛利尔》告诉我们“托尔埃勒西尔的智者”认为奥克斯是从那些在Cuivienen湖畔初醒不久后就被马尔寇捕获的精灵腐化来的。那么,谁又是那些托尔埃勒西尔的智者?芬威家族族的精灵在第一纪之后就没有回到过阿曼,他们中的大部分都死在贝勒瑞恩之战期间,难道他们就是故事中所说的托尔埃勒西尔的智者?他们中有多少人在第一纪之后从曼多斯中放出来? 至少,据说芬若就是如此。他和他的父亲菲那芬在艾尔达马的树下漫步。然而,托尔埃勒西尔岛却成了那些在戒灵之战之后航海去阿曼的埃达精灵的家园。就是说,那些在菲那芬领导下的诺多精灵继续住在阿曼,而芬若从曼多斯转生出来后是必须居住在阿曼的,他居住在艾尔达马,而不是托尔埃勒西尔。

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:46:06 | 显示全部楼层
It may be that Turgon, Finrod, Orodreth, Angrod, Aegnor, Fingolfin, and Fingon were all eventually restored to life and that most of them if not all of them settled in Tol Eressea. There they could have become the Wise of Tol Eressea, and devoted ages to examining the questions they didn't have time to answer during the Wars of Beleriand. Or it may be that other Elven lords, from less important families, assumed roles of leadership among the Eldar of Tol Eressea, and became the Wise of Tol Eressea. In Tol Eressea's original conception, developed for The Book of Lost Tales, Littleheart was one of the leaders of the Eldar on Tol Eressea. He was the son of Bronweg, who eventually became Voronwe. Voronwe, in "Of Tuor and his Coming to Gondolin", claimed to be related to Cirdan through his mother. But he also claimed to be "of the House of Fingolfin" when he named his father, Aranwe, in approaching Gondolin. No genealogy has been published which shows how Voronwe could have been related to either Cirdan (and thus Elwe, Cirdan's kinsman) or Fingolfin.

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:46:12 | 显示全部楼层
有可能的是,特冈、芬若、奥洛追斯、安格若、艾格若、菲哥芬和芬冈最后终于转生,如果不是全部的话,他中有大部分居住在托尔埃勒西尔,然后他们成为托尔埃勒西尔的智者,并将他们的时间致力于那些在贝勒瑞恩之战期间他们没有时间去解答的问题。或者,那些托尔埃勒西尔的智者也有可能是那些并不十分显赫的家族的领主,推测是那些在托尔埃勒西尔岛的埃达精灵中担当领导者角色的精灵,成为了托尔埃勒西尔的智者。作为《失落的传说》的发展,在托尔埃勒西尔最初的构想中,利托哈特(littleheart小心肝……汗)正是一位托尔埃勒西尔的埃达精灵的领袖。他是布兰怀哥(Bronweg)的儿子布,布兰怀哥最后变成了瓦然威(Voronwe)。然而在“图尔以及图尔进驻冈多林”一章中,瓦然威在母亲那一边和科丹有亲戚关系,而在他进入冈多林的时候,他叫着他父亲的名字阿然威,宣告他是“菲哥芬家族”的人。但没有出版的族谱表明瓦然威和科丹(同理,和爱尔威,科丹同族男性也是)或是菲哥芬有亲戚关系。

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:46:17 | 显示全部楼层
Nonetheless, if Voronwe, Tuor, and Idril did eventually reach Aman (as some people believe), and Tuor was admitted to the kinship of the Noldor, they may have formed the core of the Wise of Tol Eressea. Should Tuor and Idril have had more children than just Earendil? Perhaps. But Voronwe could have established a family of Elven lords who assumed an important place in Tol Eressea's society.

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:46:22 | 显示全部楼层
但是,如果瓦然威、图尔、爱尔追最终来到了阿曼(如同某些人所信的那样),而图尔被承认为有诺多的血统,那么他们就有可能成为托尔埃勒西尔的智者的核心。图尔和爱尔追是否不止埃兰迪尔这一个孩子?也许。但瓦然威很可能已经建立了一个家族,而家族的领主则是托尔埃勒西尔社会十分重要的角色。

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:46:27 | 显示全部楼层
但是,如果瓦然威、图尔、爱尔追最终来到了阿曼(如同某些人所信的那样),而图尔被承认为有诺多的血统,那么他们就有可能成为托尔埃勒西尔的智者的核心。图尔和爱尔追是否不止埃兰迪尔这一个孩子?也许。但瓦然威很可能已经建立了一个家族,而家族的领主则是托尔埃勒西尔社会十分重要的角色。

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发表于 2009-7-7 22:46:33 | 显示全部楼层
But we are left with the question of whether bloodlines really matter. For what were the Eldarin kings before they became kings? Were they the mightiest of the Elves in wisdom and power to begin with? Were they already leaders of the Elves? And, if so, how did they become so important? In the story of the First Elves, Imin, Tata, and Enel awaken before all the other Elves. They begin the process of inventing language, and because they were the eldest they possessed more experience than other Elves. But would they ever have become Elven-wise? Did they possess great power or acquire knowledge which made them and their children superior in any way to other Elves?
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