新论坛，新气象，本论坛第一只楼

diablohh

Celeborn thus exhibits a perception unlike Galadriel's, yet proves he is one of the Wise. But his wisdom lies in his shrewd ability to judge people's needs and address those needs. Galadriel's wisdom is more a wisdom born of long and sad experience. She has learned the bitter lessons history has to teach, and she is wiser for such experience. Galadriel and Celeborn complement each other, but neither is strikingly superior to the other. Celeborn is, in fact, quite decisive, whereas Galadriel is deliberative and cautious.

diablohh

凯勒鹏展示了一种与盖拉德丽尔不同的洞察力，这证明他也是一位智者。但他的智慧表现在他对于人们的需要的精明过人的判断能力以及表达这种需要的能力。盖拉德丽尔夫人的智慧则更多的是一种在长期和悲惨的经历中历炼中出来的智慧。她已经从那些应该吸取教训的惨痛的历史中得到了很多经验，她也因那些经验而变得更加精明。盖拉德丽尔夫人与凯勒鹏二人互济互补，但没有哪一个特别显著地高于对方。事实上，凯勒鹏特别果断，而盖拉德丽尔夫人则显得比较谨慎一些。

diablohh

The contrasts between Galadriel and Celeborn underscore just how difficult it is for the reader to understand and identify all of Tolkien's Wise, or Elven-wise, "lords of the Eldar from over Sea". Not all of the Wise are from over Sea (Elrond was born in Middle-earth, for example).

diablohh

盖拉德丽尔夫人与凯勒鹏之间的联系只是强调了读者在理解和定义托尔金所说的“智者”、“精灵智者”或是“来自远洋彼岩的埃达领主”是如何的困难。但并不是所有的智者都来自大洋的那一边（例如，埃尔隆出生在中洲）。

diablohh

It is curious that Tolkien should distinguish the Wise as "lords of the Eldar". Are all the Wise members of the nobility? If so, what is it that makes them Wise? They may possess great learning, which among mortal men is more likely to be acquired by wealthy families than poor families. But Elves live long enough that even their poorest families must eventually accumulate a great deal of lore

diablohh

奇怪的是，托尔金应该将智者同“埃达领主”区分开来。所有的智者都是贵族吗？如果是的话，那是什么使他们变得智慧的？他们可能拥用博学的知识，这在生命有限的人类看来，那更可能是富裕的家庭而不是贫困的家庭所能提供的。但精灵的长命能使他们即使是最贫穷家庭最终也可以积累到足够的多学识。

diablohh

Wisdom is the product of education, experience, and reason. One need not acquire a formal education in order to become wise (and an educational system cannot guarantee results in any event). The Elves in general were very wise, possessing a great deal of experience. Tolkien successfully distinguishes between Elves by limiting their experiences and filtering their values through cultural motifs. Hence, Legolas thinks of the Elves of Eregion as strange and foreign to his own woodland folk. The Elves of Lothlorien are even less worldly than Legolas, except for Galadriel and Celeborn. Haldir the march-warden knows about Hobbits but hasn't seen any for many years. And he is one of the few scouts who are occasionally sent out to have dealings with other peoples. Legolas is not surprised to know about Hobbits, but then, he has already met Bilbo and dealt with Gollum. And Gildor Inglorion and his folk pass through the Shire frequently, so they are quite comfortable with Hobbits.

diablohh

智慧是教育、经验和理性的产物。一个人不需要经历正式的教育来拥有智慧（而一个教育体制也不能保证任何结果）。精灵通常都是有智慧的，因为他们阅历丰富。通过界定他们的经历、通过文化主题来筛虑出他们的价值观，托尔金成功地将那些精灵区分开来。因此，同他们森林里的精灵比起来，莱格拉斯把那些埃吉利翁的精灵当成是异族人，并觉得他们很奇怪。而那些洛斯洛林的精灵比莱格拉斯还要闭塞，除了盖拉德丽尔和凯勒鹏两位。巡视官哈尔迪尔知道有霍比特人，但他很多年来都从未见过他们。而他也是少数的几位偶尔会被派出去和外界人打交道的巡逻人员之一。莱格拉斯也知道霍比特人，这并不奇怪，但那个时候，他已经见过贝尔博而且抓过格鲁姆。而吉尔多·英格洛瑞安和他的族人常常穿行于霞尔地区，所以他们和霍比特人相处得很友好。

diablohh

Each Elf who encounters the Hobbits in the story accumulates some new experience, and gains a little wisdom thereby, but the Elf who exhibits the most growth is Legolas. By traveling with Frodo and the Company of the Ring, Legolas gains a unique experience which even Feanor, Finwe, Elwe, and all the great Elves of old cannot match. He seems a bit rustic when the reader first meets him in "The Council of Elrond", but by "Many Partings" Legolas has proven he possesses the wisdom and courage of a great leader, and that he can take on the wider world without stumbling in wide-eyed fashion. Some of the Elves, such as Lindir in Rivendell, would seem a bit out of place in the mortal world. Legolas may not be one of the Elven-wise, but he is a wise lord of the Elves.

diablohh

故事中每一个遇上霍比特的精灵都积累了一定的新经验，他们智慧也或多或少地因此受益，但其中成长最大的是莱格拉斯。与佛多以及其它护戒队员的旅行使莱格拉斯得到的历炼独一无二，即使是费诺、芬威、爱尔威等其它的元古的伟大的精灵都无法比拟。当读者在“埃尔隆的议会”一章中第一次遇见他的时候，他给人的印象可能还有些土里土气。但到了“许多成员”一章的时候，莱格拉斯证明了他具有作为一个伟大的领袖所拥有的才智和勇气，而且他能够以一种开阔的眼光来看待这个世界的事物而不是被狭隘的目光所局限。其他的精灵，象利文德尔的林德，则看起来和人类的世界有些脱节。莱格拉斯也许还称不上精灵智者，但他却是一位智慧的精灵领主。

diablohh

So, if a wise lord of the Elves is not one of the Wise, how does one join the elite club? Are only lords of the Eldar admitted to the ranks of the Wise? If so, does Celeborn, originally conceived of as a Wood-elf, count? Or are only Noldor and Sindar considered eligible? And who makes the final determination? How do the Elves recognize their Wise lords, as opposed to their wise lords? Erestor was the chief counsellor of Elrond's household, but was he, like Elrond (and probably Glorfindel) one of the Wise? Were Elrond's sons, Elladan and Elrohir, who elicited a great deal of admiration from Legolas, counted among the Wise? Or, being only about 3,000 years old, were they still working on their apprenticeship?

diablohh

那么，如果一位智慧的精灵领主还不能算是智者，那怎样的人才能算是精灵的智者？只有埃达族的领主才能划入智者的范围吗？如果是这样的话，那位通常被认为是木精灵的凯勒鹏为什么又被称为智者？或者是，范围只限定于诺多和辛达族的精灵？谁才能最终决定？当精灵要反对他们的英明的领主的时候，他们是如果看待他的？埃雷斯拖是埃尔隆家中的首席顾问（类似的还有格洛芬德），但，他也象埃尔隆一样，能被称为“智者”吗？莱格拉斯异常钦佩的、埃尔隆的两位儿子埃拉丹和埃尔洛赫，也可以算是智者吗？或者，因为他们的年龄才三千岁左右，因此他们被认为是仍处于学徒期而不能称为智者？

diablohh

There may have been only four Elves at the time of the War of the Ring whom all readers would regard to be numbered among the Wise: Cirdan, Glorfindel, Galadriel, and Elrond. Most people would probably accept Gildor, too. And maybe a lot of people would accept Celeborn despite the contrast Tolkien draws between Galadriel and Celeborn. But all other Elves and Half-elves encountered in the story, including Arwen and her brothers, and Erestor and Legolas, are merely wise Elves, not members of the Wise (so far as we know). The distinction, if there is one, seems to be that the Wise were members of the great families of the Eldar, the royal houses, except for Glorfindel. But Glorfindel was himself an ancient prince among the Eldar in their greatest city in Middle-earth.

diablohh

那么，在魔戒之战的时期，只有四位精灵被读者公认为智者：科丹、格洛芬德、盖拉德丽尔和埃尔隆。大部分的人可能会接受吉尔多。可能还有很多人把凯勒鹏也看成是智者，尽管这与托尔金对盖拉德丽尔夫人与凯勒鹏的描述相反。但书中其他所有的精灵和半精灵，包括阿尔温和她的哥哥们、埃雷斯拖和莱格拉斯，都只能称为智慧的精灵而不能称为智者（目前我们所知）。其中的区别，如果有的话，好象是智者必须是伟大的埃达精灵族中的王室成员，除了格洛芬德。但中洲精灵的城邦的埃达精灵中，格洛芬德本人也是远古的皇胃之一。

diablohh

Cirdan and Galadriel were both very ancient, Cirdan being the elder of the two. He had communed with one or more of the Maiar and Valar before the rebellion of the Noldor. And he may have communed with them after the First Age. Galadriel had lived in Aman and therefore had known many of the Valar and Maiar personally. She would have learned directly from the master architects of creations. And later, after the rebellion of the Noldor, Galadriel was introduced to Melian, who had taught the Sindar of Menegroth many things.